EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3


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Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:20:00 - [1] Whats with all the people ignoring those saying that its the plate thats the problem, not the drone bay. Even the rax pilot from that vid, says that its the plate that overpowers the rax. Everyone i know who PvP's says kill the drones you kill the rax.. and some of those are rax pilots.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:20:00 - [2] Whats with all the people ignoring those saying that its the plate thats the problem, not the drone bay. Even the rax pilot from that vid, says that its the plate that overpowers the rax. Everyone i know who PvP's says kill the drones you kill the rax.. and some of those are rax pilots.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:56:00 - [3] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Noone here is saying Plates Aren't A Problem they just aren't THIS problem. We need to bring the Thorax out of HAC land damage wise before we cascade a change to ALL cruisers that will still leave the PROBLEM this whole thread has proven time and time again. Nerfing Plates without boosting cruisers is going to break something you DO NOT WANT broken at this point in time... close range cruiser battles across the board. Its just you know... some other pilots besides Rax Pilots would like to get into all the fun... because they watch on the side line while Thorax pget into the fun without their counterpart pwning them right and left unjustly. But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Noone here is saying Plates Aren't A Problem they just aren't THIS problem. We need to bring the Thorax out of HAC land damage wise before we cascade a change to ALL cruisers that will still leave the PROBLEM this whole thread has proven time and time again. Nerfing Plates without boosting cruisers is going to break something you DO NOT WANT broken at this point in time... close range cruiser battles across the board. Its just you know... some other pilots besides Rax Pilots would like to get into all the fun... because they watch on the side line while Thorax pget into the fun without their counterpart pwning them right and left unjustly. But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Naughty Boy * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. Erm... when you fit 1600mm plate, on a rax you can't fit med blasters.. so that doesn't bring back the blaster-rax .. unless your planning on making it so the rax can fit 1600mm plate and med blasters.. but then it would still leave things overpowered. The problem is clearly the plate, and the majority of people asking for the rax, drone bay to be nerfed are in fact trying to hide the problem of the plate.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Naughty Boy * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. Erm... when you fit 1600mm plate, on a rax you can't fit med blasters.. so that doesn't bring back the blaster-rax .. unless your planning on making it so the rax can fit 1600mm plate and med blasters.. but then it would still leave things overpowered. The problem is clearly the plate, and the majority of people asking for the rax, drone bay to be nerfed are in fact trying to hide the problem of the plate.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful

Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Objection, defence is playing fool with the court! 200 mm is WEAKER rail, but still its better. Defence knows that and tries to dismiss the witness. 250mm rail have more damage and range. They will only be better, but harder to fit. Why bother if 200mm rail shows us the setup which fits, works and totaly shows the disbalance of thorax bay. Objection over ruled... 200mms should be compaired to 650s. compairing the 720 to the 200mm and using its fittings as the basis of your argument is showing the court you don't know what your talking about.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Objection, defence is playing fool with the court! 200 mm is WEAKER rail, but still its better. Defence knows that and tries to dismiss the witness. 250mm rail have more damage and range. They will only be better, but harder to fit. Why bother if 200mm rail shows us the setup which fits, works and totaly shows the disbalance of thorax bay. Objection over ruled... 200mms should be compaired to 650s. compairing the 720 to the 200mm and using its fittings as the basis of your argument is showing the court you don't know what your talking about.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.27 20:42:00 - [13] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am ......... 800mm and 1600mm plate = battleship armour = oversized. So would be acceptable then for the rax to lose its drone bay, and be able to fit a rack of medium guns and 1600mm plate? Being as its supposed to fit cruiser weapons. So lets allow all cruisers to be able to fit a full rack of the lowest t2 medium gun, and 1600mm plate (or for the shield tankers.. lowest t2 weapon and large shield extenders.) ... but wait... i can only see people saying this cruiser or that cruiser is overpowered. The easy soloution is to prevent ships from using oversized plate... so that means cruisers.. no more fitting battleship plate, and frigs ... no more cruiser plate. By doing this, the thorax goes back to being its old paper thin self.. (which was a lot of fun to fly..)
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.27 20:42:00 - [14] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am ......... 800mm and 1600mm plate = battleship armour = oversized. So would be acceptable then for the rax to lose its drone bay, and be able to fit a rack of medium guns and 1600mm plate? Being as its supposed to fit cruiser weapons. So lets allow all cruisers to be able to fit a full rack of the lowest t2 medium gun, and 1600mm plate (or for the shield tankers.. lowest t2 weapon and large shield extenders.) ... but wait... i can only see people saying this cruiser or that cruiser is overpowered. The easy soloution is to prevent ships from using oversized plate... so that means cruisers.. no more fitting battleship plate, and frigs ... no more cruiser plate. By doing this, the thorax goes back to being its old paper thin self.. (which was a lot of fun to fly..)
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.29 13:39:00 - [15] Originally by: DarK Take no note of this man, he is without clue and uses a "3" instead of an "e". So are you saying there should be 1 uber ship that everyone should fly? right? /me smacks forehead Shame the problem with the rax is its use of oversized plates. But alas, too many people refuse to see it, and would rather babble on about how overpowered the rax is, without taking the time to realise that without the plate its an easy kill. But alas, no doub't the rax will gets its drone bay nerf and the oversized plates will get their nerf.. and everyone will be left with another useless ship. This will be shortly followed by another post about some other ship is overpowered, and more people going on until thats nerfed.. and soon PvP will be done in shuttles with smacktalk as the primary weapon.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.29 13:39:00 - [16] Originally by: DarK Take no note of this man, he is without clue and uses a "3" instead of an "e". So are you saying there should be 1 uber ship that everyone should fly? right? /me smacks forehead Shame the problem with the rax is its use of oversized plates. But alas, too many people refuse to see it, and would rather babble on about how overpowered the rax is, without taking the time to realise that without the plate its an easy kill. But alas, no doub't the rax will gets its drone bay nerf and the oversized plates will get their nerf.. and everyone will be left with another useless ship. This will be shortly followed by another post about some other ship is overpowered, and more people going on until thats nerfed.. and soon PvP will be done in shuttles with smacktalk as the primary weapon.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.29 19:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Just for the record. You can't setup a cruser against heavy drones, mmmkey? Medium smartbomb takes forever to kill them. ECM burst is now not an option. And shooting 8 heavy drones with guns is a waste of damage because they have total HP like a thorax itself. yes you can... both the ashimmu and the maller can be set up to kill off plated rax's. what you seem to forget, is for every drone you kill the less damage the rax does, but hey i'm sticking to my last post that both the rax and plates will get nerfed.. and after we lose an effective ship you lot will start on something else to moan about.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.29 19:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Just for the record. You can't setup a cruser against heavy drones, mmmkey? Medium smartbomb takes forever to kill them. ECM burst is now not an option. And shooting 8 heavy drones with guns is a waste of damage because they have total HP like a thorax itself. yes you can... both the ashimmu and the maller can be set up to kill off plated rax's. what you seem to forget, is for every drone you kill the less damage the rax does, but hey i'm sticking to my last post that both the rax and plates will get nerfed.. and after we lose an effective ship you lot will start on something else to moan about.

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